{"id":78962,"date":"2025-06-20T12:36:04","date_gmt":"2025-06-20T16:36:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/?p=78962"},"modified":"2026-04-17T10:40:28","modified_gmt":"2026-04-17T14:40:28","slug":"the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/","title":{"rendered":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"player_container player-78962\" ><div class=\"spp_player_textabove\"><b>Listen to the Episode  <\/b><\/div><div id=\"sm2-78962\" class=\"sm2-78962 playercontent sm2-bar-ui compact flat full-width full-width-player\"><div class=\"bd sm2-main-controls\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-button-element\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"background: transparent url(https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/app\/uploads\/2021\/05\/podcast_channel_artwork.jpg) repeat scroll 0% 0% \/ cover ;\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"spp-player-background\"> <\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#play\" class=\"sm2-inline-button play-pause\"><\/a>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"loader\" style=\"display:none;\"><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"eq\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-1\"><\/span>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-2\"><\/span>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-3\"><\/span>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-4\"><\/span>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div><div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-inline-status progressbar\">\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"display:none;\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch0\" style=\"display:none;\">0.75x<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch1\">1x<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch2\" style=\"display:none;\">1.25x<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch3\" style=\"display:none;\">1.5x<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch4\" style=\"display:none;\">2x<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"display:none;\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"secrewind\"><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist-target\"><\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bd\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-track\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bar1\" style=\"display:none;\"><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bar\"><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-ball\"><div class=\"icon-overlay\"><\/div><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-row timestamp timetext\"><div class=\"sm2-inline-time timestamp\">0:00<\/div><div class=\"sm2-inline-duration timestamp\">30:56<\/div><\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-button-element sm2-volume\" style=\"0\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t   <div class=\"sm2-button-bd\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"sm2-inline-button sm2-volume-control volume-shade\"><\/span>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#volume\" class=\"sm2-inline-button sm2-volume-control\" style=\"\"><\/a>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t   <\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t  <\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"bd sm2-playlist-drawer sm2-element\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist-wrapper\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"sm2-playlist-bd\"><li><a href=\"https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thestoryexchange\/TSE_Abortion_Podcast.mp3?dest-id=296878\">The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div><div class=\"sppbuttons\" style=\"\"><a class=\"button-itunes\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-story-exchange\/id1036000689?ls=1\">Apple Podcasts<\/a><a class=\"button-g-play\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly90aGVzdG9yeWV4Y2hhbmdlLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz\">Google Podcasts<\/a><a class=\"button-embed\" rel=\"modal:open\"  id=\"button-embed\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"#ex1\">Player Embed<\/a><a class=\"button-share\" data-target=\"btnshare\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"#\">Share<\/a>\r\n\t\t\t\t<div id=\"btnshare\" class=\"webui-popover-content share-buttons\">\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sharer\/sharer.php?u=https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/\" title=\"Share on Facebook\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"facebook\"><i class=\"fa fa-facebook\"><\/i><\/a>\r\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/share?text=The+State+of+Abortion%2C+3+Years+Since+Dobbs -&url=https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/\" title=\"Share on Twitter\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"twitter\"><i class=\"fa fa-twitter\"><\/i><\/a>\r\n\t\t\t\t<\/div><a class=\"button-sppreview\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/getpodcast.reviews\/id\/1036000689\">Leave a Review<\/a><a class=\"button-spplisten\" style=\"display:none !important;\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"javascript:window.open('https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thestoryexchange\/TSE_Abortion_Podcast.mp3?dest-id=296878','','width=500,height=250')\">Listen in a New Window<\/a><a class=\"button-download\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thestoryexchange\/TSE_Abortion_Podcast.mp3?dest-id=296878\">Download<\/a><a class=\"button-soundcloud\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\">SoundCloud<\/a><a class=\"button-stitcher\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=72717&refid=stpr\">Stitcher<\/a><a class=\"button-sppandroid\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/subscribeonandroid.com\/thestoryexchange.libsyn.com\/rss\">Subscribe on Android<\/a><a class=\"button-spprss\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.libsyn.com\/rss\">Subscribe via RSS<\/a><a class=\"button-spotify\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\">Spotify<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom1\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.prx.org\/series\/34510-the-story-exchange\">PRX<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom2\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLaK2UyNCu2g2_preGI12R4z2iRXjIH3ah\">Youtube Music<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom3\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/5lJgdFK8g9WWXLBYjWytyn\">Spotify<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom4\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/B094\">Pocket Casts<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom5\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom6\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><\/div><\/div>\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"800\" src=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-79005\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1-525x350.jpg 525w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1-150x100.jpg 150w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1-90x60.jpg 90w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">(Credit: Nataliya Vaitkevich on Pexels)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><em><strong>Editor&#8217;s Note: This June 2025 episode has been <a href=\"https:\/\/vote.webbyawards.com\/PublicVoting#\/2026\/podcasts\/limited-series-specials\/news-politics\">nominated<\/a> for a 2026 Webby Award, in the News &amp; Politics category.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s been three years since the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v Jackson Women\u2019s Health, and we&#8217;ve seen startling and disturbing consequences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A recent study by <a href=\"https:\/\/news.osu.edu\/us-infant-mortality-increased-7-in-months-following-dobbs\/\">Ohio State<\/a>, for instance, found that infant mortality immediately rose 7 percent&nbsp;in the months after Dobbs. More babies died from genetic abnormalities, which suggests that mothers were forced to carry non-viable pregnancies to term. As the researchers put it: &#8220;When you restrict access to health care it can cause a broader impact on public health then can be foreseen.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Other research shows an alarming spike in sepsis, especially among women suffering late-stage miscarriages. A Pro Publica <a href=\"https:\/\/www.propublica.org\/article\/texas-abortion-ban-sepsis-maternal-mortality-analysis\">analysis<\/a> of the abortion ban in Texas identified miscarrying women who died after doctors delayed common procedures to empty their uteruses. Doing so would have been considered an abortion.<br><br>The situation \u2013 strictly from a health care perspective \u2013 seems incredibly dire. But there&#8217;s also been another development &#8212; one that\u2019s quite surprising.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the three years since Dobbs, there&#8217;s actually been an upward trend in abortion. In 2023, there were more abortions than in any year since 2011, meaning, more women seem to have access to abortion than ever before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I think the anti-abortion rights movement is really struggling with &#8212; you finally get the thing that you&#8217;ve been fighting for, for decades &#8212; and actually the number of abortions goes up,&#8221; says Angel Foster, <span data-sheets-root=\"1\">a university professor who runs a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cambridgereproductivehealthconsultants.org\/map\">shield-law practice<\/a> out of Massachusetts that providers mifepristone and misoprostol to abortion seekers in all 50 states.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Foster is one of two abortion care providers we spoke to for this podcast.<span data-sheets-root=\"1\"> The other is <a href=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/abortion-provider-julie-burkhart\/\">Julie Burkhart<\/a>, a reproductive-rights advocate and clinic operator who throughout the years has seen a colleague assassinated and her clinic fire-bombed. Combined, Foster and Burkhart have helped thousands of women secure safe abortions in the three years since Roe fell. <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span data-sheets-root=\"1\">To many listeners, their stories will inspire and provide hope &#8212; although the future is uncertain. Abortion opponents are doubling down with criminal indictments and lawsuits. &#8220;They\u2019ll come after us. I\u2019m sure,&#8221; says Foster. Meanwhile, Burkhart, who&#8217;s long dealt with intimidation, harassment and violence, shares her thoughts on managing fear. &#8220;If we can walk through it, even though it&#8217;s so frightening and scary and paralyzing, it&#8217;s okay on the other side,&#8221; she says.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em><strong>&nbsp;In addition to the podcast above, we&#8217;ve also featured both women in these Q&amp;As below. <\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-angel-foster\">Angel Foster<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"710\" height=\"1000\" src=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/AFoster_Photo.jpg\" alt=\"Angel Foster is a professor at the University of Ottawa and co-founder of the Massachusetts Medication Abortion Access Project. (Image: Courtesy of Foster)\" class=\"wp-image-77613\" style=\"width:275px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/AFoster_Photo.jpg 710w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/AFoster_Photo-525x739.jpg?theia_smart_thumbnails_file_version=2 525w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/AFoster_Photo-150x211.jpg?theia_smart_thumbnails_file_version=2 150w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/AFoster_Photo-43x60.jpg?theia_smart_thumbnails_file_version=2 43w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 710px) 100vw, 710px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">(Image: Courtesy of Foster)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/protecting-abortion-care-in-the-u-s-a-conversation-with-a-top-provider\/\">A Conversation About Abortion Care \u2014 and It\u2019s Not All Bad News<\/a><\/strong><br>Angel Foster of the Massachusetts Medication Abortion Access Project on how abortion with pills is here to stay, even as anti-abortion forces double down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-julie-burkhart\">Julie Burkhart<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"739\" height=\"997\" src=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pro-AOKeMIvB.jpeg\" alt=\"Julie Burkhart is the founder of Wellspring Health Access and a longtime advocate for women's reproductive freedom. (Credit: Courtesy of Burkhart)\" class=\"wp-image-78918\" style=\"width:276px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pro-AOKeMIvB.jpeg 739w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pro-AOKeMIvB-525x708.jpeg 525w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pro-AOKeMIvB-150x202.jpeg 150w, https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pro-AOKeMIvB-44x60.jpeg 44w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 739px) 100vw, 739px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">(Credit: Courtesy of Burkhart)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/abortion-provider-julie-burkhart\/\"><strong>The Resilient Provider Who\u2019s Survived Arson, Death Threats and Supreme Court Rulings<\/strong><\/a><br>Before Julie Burkhart could even open Wyoming\u2019s&nbsp;only full-service abortion clinic, an extremist tried to burn it down. That hasn\u2019t stopped her. Neither has the Dobbs ruling.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"transcript-box\" style=\"float:none !important;\">\r\n<div class=\"accordion-container\">\r\n\t\t<a href=\"#\" class=\"accordion-toggle\">Read Full Transcript<span class=\"toggle-icon\"><i class=\"fa fa-angle-double-down\"><\/i><\/span><\/a>\r\n\t\t<div class=\"accordion-accordion_content\">\r\n\t\t\t<p><p>COLLEEN: Hi, I'm Colleen DeBaise.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: And I'm Sue Williams.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Welcome to The Story Exchange. This June marks the 3rd anniversary of the overturn of Roe versus Wade. Here's CBS, from 2022.<\/p>\n<p>CBS NEWS: We're outside the Supreme Court after the landmark decision that overturned Roe vs Wade and ended a woman's constitutional right to an abortion\u2026<\/p>\n<p>SUE: In the years since the decision in Dobbs versus Jackson Women\u2019s Health, we've seen startling and deeply upsetting consequences.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: A recent study by Ohio State, for instance, found that infant mortality rose 7%.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: More babies died from genetic abnormalities, which suggests that mothers were forced to carry non-viable pregnancies to term.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: As the Ohio State researchers put it: \u201cwhen you restrict access to health care it can cause a broader impact on public health than can be foreseen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Other research shows an alarming spike in sepsis, especially among women suffering late-stage miscarriages.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Women are more likely to get sepsis \u2013 which is a life-threatening condition \u2014  if doctors refuse to perform a routine procedure to empty the uterus. Here's a ProPublica analysis of the situation in Texas.<\/p>\n<p>PROPUBLICA: One doctor told us that when physicians wait until there is no  longer a fetal heartbeat, it needlessly puts women\u2019s lives in danger. <\/p>\n<p>SUE: The situation \u2013 strictly from a health care perspective \u2013 seems incredibly dire. But there's also been another development \u2013 one that\u2019s quite surprising. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: In the three years since Dobbs, there's actually been an upward trend in abortion \u2013 in 2023, there were more abortions than in any year since 2011, meaning, more women seem to have access to abortion than ever before.<\/p>\n<p>DR. ANGEL FOSTER: I think the anti-abortion rights movement is really struggling with \u2013 you finally get the thing that you've been fighting for, for decades, and actually, the number of abortions goes up.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: That's Dr. Angel Foster.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: I'm a professor at the University of Ottawa, where I run a large global abortion research group.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And more importantly, at least for this podcast \u2013 <\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: We're talking today in my role as the co-founder of the Massachusetts Medication Abortion Access Project, or The MAP.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Angel is one of two abortion care providers we'll speak to in this episode.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: The other is Julie Burkhart, of Wellspring Health Access.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE BURKHART: We have a clinic in Casper, Wyoming.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Julie was recently named one of Time Magazine's most influential people of 2025.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: The clinic she just mentioned, the only full-service abortion clinic in the entire state,    was actually torched by an arsonist, about a month before the Dobbs ruling.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: My phone rang just before 6 o\u2019clock in the morning, and the contractor said, \"Well Julie, the building's on fire \u2013 you better get down here.\"<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: We spoke to both women about the services they provide and the state of abortion in America, three years since Roe's overturn.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: What you'll hear will at times infuriate you \u2013 and at other times, will perhaps give you a modicum of hope. It's an important conversation. So stick around. <\/p>\n<p>*Musical interlude*<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Let's start with hope.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Sounds good.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And Angel Foster. <\/p>\n<p>SUE: We should explain what the Massachusetts Medication Abortion Access Project actually is.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Yes. They call it the MAP. It's a shield-law practice.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: So in the summer of 2022, after the Dobbs decision, the Massachusetts legislature passed what's affectionately known as the Massachusetts Shield Law.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: The law does many things, but for the purposes of reproductive health care\u2026<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: \u2026it effectively redefines the location of telemedicine care. If the clinician is physically in Massachusetts, then for the purpose of that care, the care is taking place in Massachusetts. So it\u2019s as if the patient was in Massachusetts.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: That's a game-changer for women living in banned or restricted states.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Exactly. And keep in mind, a third of American women now live in states where abortion is banned or restricted in the first trimester \u2013 think Texas, Alabama, Mississippi. So this shield law in Massachusetts\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: \u2026is pretty revolutionary. It opened up the opportunity for us and others to provide abortion care in all 50 states.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: About 9 months after the shield law was passed\u2026<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: On International Safe Abortion Day of 2023, we launched The MAP. The MAP is an asynchronous telemedicine service. We provide FDA-approved mifepristone and misoprostol to abortion seekers in all 50 states. We provide care to patients who first contact us when they're within 11 weeks from the first day of their last menstrual period. Our hope is that patients will have pills in their hands by 12 weeks and take the pills in the first trimester.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: When Angel says \"asynchronous\"\u2026?<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Basically, it means that the patient and the clinician don't need to be communicating at the same time.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Often when people think about telemedicine, they think about having a video conversation with a clinician. We don't do that. We are available to our patients by secure phone, by text and email. It's basically going online, filling out forms. Then one of our clinicians, our doc of the day, reviews those forms, and either prescribes pills or we'll follow up with a patient and sort out what additional information that we need. We can and do have live interactions when patients need those.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: It\u2019s quite a simple, private process.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And it's amazingly inexpensive.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: A word we never use in relation to healthcare, at least in this country.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: We ask patients to make a minimum payment of $5 but invite them to pay what they can, and we're able to do that because we have philanthropic support that covers our core operational costs. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And those core costs are still pretty low.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: The package that we send to patients costs $75, and it takes into account that about 3% of our packages don't make it to patients because of snafus with the postal system, so we have to resend the packages.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: I asked Angel about the low cost. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Is that largely because this whole process has become something that can be done through telehealth and also through abortion pills? Is that in contrast to how it used to be done?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Right. We don't have all of the other things that one would have with a brick-and-mortar clinic in terms of labs and ultrasound machines, all of the things that you would need, particularly if you're doing instrumentation or procedural abortion care. And so we can be a really streamlined service.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: A University of California study just a few years ago \u2013 in 2020, before Roe was overturned \u2013 found that many women undergoing a first-trimester abortion paid about $500 for it.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: And that doesn't include the cost of travel, lost wages, and child-care expenses. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: That's right. So, that same study found that in total, many women were actually paying about $1,000, out-of-pocket, for an abortion. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Can you tell me a little bit about who your typical patient is?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Sure. About a third of our patients are from Texas. About 40% or 42% of our patients are white. A little bit more than half of our patients identify as Black or Latino. Then we've got a small number of folks who identify as Arab or Middle Eastern, Asian. We have seen three differences with our patients compared to the pre-Dobbs patients. The first is that we seem to be serving more rural white women than what we've historically seen. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Angel has a few theories for why that is the case.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: If these are folks who are in particularly conservative areas of the country and would have had to travel over long distances to get care, it may have been difficult to do that prior to Dobbs, and be able to do that without people in your life knowing. And so being able to get pills in the mail might be a particularly attractive strategy for them.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: The second thing is that The MAP is serving more women \u2013 about 7% of patients \u2013 who have four or more children.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: That's actually a pretty high number, including folks who have five, six, seven children. Very large families. I think one of the things, again, that we're seeing is that maybe this is a population that didn't have access to abortion care before. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And then the third thing has to do, again, with cost.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: More of our patients are getting subsidized care than what we saw with patients prior to Dobbs. A third of our patients pay $5 or less.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Wow \u2013 less than $5!<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And by subsidized, she means the cost is offset by contributions from local and national abortion funds and also individual donors.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: We saw a lot of \"rage\" giving after Roe was overturned\u2026<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: That's correct.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: I think what we really are seeing from our patients is just how out-of-range abortion prices have been for such a long time and that this model of care is really addressing a need.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: When we come back, we'll talk to Angel about the MAP's success rates, a little bit of the history of abortion pills, and what she fears most.<\/p>\n<p>COMMERCIAL: The Story Exchange is an award-winning nonprofit media platform that elevates women\u2019s voices and achievements. Check out our site to read hundreds of startup stories \u2013 and share one yourself \u2013 through our 1,000+ Stories project. Find out more at thestoryexchange.org.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: We've been talking to Angel Foster, who is a co-founder of the MAP, a shield law practice out of Massachusetts that provides mifepristone and misoprostol to patients in all 50 states.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Medication abortion, over the past several decades, has now become the most common form of abortion care in the U.S.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: It's used in over 60% of abortions, according to recent studies.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Mifepristone was developed in France.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: That's Angel again. I asked her about the history of abortion pills.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: A French pharmaceutical company called Roussel Uclaf started in the late '70s, early '80s to try to develop an abortion pill, and from that came mifepristone. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Was it widely used in Europe before the United States, or\u2013?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: It's been a slow roll. There are some countries in Europe where medication abortion became this kind of \u2013 the standard of care relatively quickly. Sweden is actually a really good example of that. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Sweden began allowing medication abortion back in 1992.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Mife and misoprostol became integrated into primary care practitioners; certified nurse midwives were able to provide abortion care. You saw this shift where it went from, there was basically no medication abortion to, now in Sweden, I think it's 95% of all abortions are with mifepristone and misoprostol.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Here in the U.S., the FDA approved abortion medication back in 2000, 25 years ago, and that was a major turning point, of course. But still, like a lot of the places around the world, it took a while for the thinking about abortion care to change.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: It 's been imagined that it's this hospital-based surgical intervention that only highly trained physicians can provide. And so when you introduce a pill, how does that new form of abortion get integrated in with existing policies and laws around abortion? Sometimes that can take a long time to disentangle as well.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Over the years, the FDA has repeatedly affirmed the safety of abortion pills. During the Covid pandemic, the FDA began allowing pills to be prescribed without an in-person visit, and to be sent via mail \u2013 that prompted anti-abortion opponents to file a high-profile lawsuit, challenging the FDA's approval of mifepristone.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Last June, in a win for the pro-choice movement, that challenge was denied.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Here's Fox 5 in New York.<\/p>\n<p>FEMALE ANCHOR: A major ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court today. The abortion pill mifepristone can stay on the market.<\/p>\n<p>MALE ANCHOR: All right, that unanimous ruling marks the court's first abortion decision since Roe v Wade was overturned two years ago\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Part of the reason for the conservative challenges, of course, is that pills make abortion easier to access. Not to mention, the pills are highly effective. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Do you have a sense of your success rates?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Sure, we do. We take that very seriously. Medication abortion in general is about 98% effective. We've had very few serious adverse events, and we track those very carefully. In 2024, we served a little less than 11,000 patients. We had about 12 serious adverse events.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: By that, she means patients who experienced bleeding or needed to get to a hospital or clinic for further help.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Very, very low serious adverse event rate.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And the MAP works with those patients to help them get the care they need, sometimes linking them with the National Abortion Federation's hotline \u2013<\/p>\n<p>SUE: The contact information to that is on the website prochoice.org.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: \u2013 and helping them to get subsidies to travel across state lines to get hospital-based care. When I spoke with Angel in late March, it was not long after a New York doctor had been indicted for providing abortion pills across state lines\u2026here's CBS News.<\/p>\n<p>CBS NEWS: There is an abortion battle playing out between red states and blue states and doctors are at the center of it. Dr. Margaret Carpenter, here in New York, where abortion is legal, is facing a criminal charge in Louisiana.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Dr. Carpenter has also been sued by the state of Texas.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): What are you worried about in terms of what the future holds?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: So let me just start by saying, obviously it's really disappointing. It's scary. The fact that the lawsuit against Dr. Carpenter published her home address in multiple places \u2013 it creates security concerns. It's clearly about creating a chilling effect and fear and inviting people to dox her. All of that is awful. I don't think anybody in the shield law space was surprised that there was going to be legal action. The question I think for all of us has been, \u201cIs it going to be against a practice? Is it going to be against an individual provider?\u201d With what's happened with Maggie, we now have the opening salvo. The reality is that, if the anti-abortion rights movement wants to stop abortion in the United States, that is going to be very challenging because of the way that pills can move. I think it\u2019s really hard to put that genie back in the bottle. But the anti-abortion rights movement is really doubling down. Some of these folks are offering up the death penalty for women who have abortions or really long criminal prison terms. They\u2019ll come after us. I\u2019m sure. I don\u2019t know exactly what it\u2019ll look like. We feel really confident in what it is that we\u2019re doing and the fact that our service is legal and that the state backs us up. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: We'll be right back. <\/p>\n<p>COMMERCIAL: Here at The Story Exchange, we aim to keep you informed. If you like what you\u2019re hearing, check out our podcast on menopause. We talk to Dr. Mary Claire Haver, an OBGYN and TikTok influencer. \u201cMenopause just gets shoved in this narrow, narrow box, and we need to open that box.\u201d Listen to the episode, \u201cMeet Mary Claire Haver, a Top Menopause Influencer,\u201d wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: The battle over abortion rights is hardly new \u2013 nor, unfortunately, are the threats, intimidation and violence. <\/p>\n<p>SUE: Back when the right to abortion was enshrined in the U.S. constitution, there was a particularly terrible case in which Dr. George Tiller, a doctor who performed late-term abortions, was murdered in Wichita, Kansas.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Here's a CBS News clip from 2009, recounting how an anti-abortion extremist took matters into his own hands. <\/p>\n<p>CBS NEWS: \u2026assassinating the 67-year-old Tiller with a handgun in the church lobby just after services began\u2026<\/p>\n<p>JULIE BURKHART: Dr. Tiller's death was, unfortunately, not the first tragedy. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: That's Julie Burkhart, who runs the Wellspring clinic in Wyoming.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: But for someone who I worked with, who I cared so deeply about, who was a great mentor to me and somebody who just believed in doing the right thing by people, that hole that's left in your heart...it softens with time, but it's always there.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Julie has long been involved in abortion care, starting in college. A native Midwesterner\u2026<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: I'm an Oklahoman.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: \u2026she happened to get a summer-break job back in 1991 at the Wichita women's center \u2013 and had a front-row seat to the Summer of Mercy anti-abortion protests.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: For six weeks, thousands of protesters blocked access to clinics, crawled under cars, shouted biblical verses and heckled patients.<\/p>\n<p>PROTESTER: Don't do it \u2013 it can have such a beautiful life! Let it live!<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): That really changed the course of your life, it seems.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Yes, it did. I was definitely raised in a feminist environment. I already had these very firm beliefs about bodily autonomy. It did change my trajectory, because my degrees are in political science. I thought I was going to go off and do, I don't know, diplomacy and international relations, or something. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Instead, Julie began focusing on healthcare. She worked for Planned Parenthood. And eventually, she worked for Dr. Tiller, becoming his political advisor and spokesperson. <\/p>\n<p>JULIE: I can tell you that when Dr. Tiller died, it was this big reckoning, because I wasn't sure I wanted to even continue working in this field. It really made me evaluate what life means for me, and, I don't know, what I'm willing to do and what I'm not willing to do.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Four years after he died, despite more threats and more protests, she re-opened his clinic, followed by more clinics, including one in her home state of Oklahoma, the first new one in 40 years. <\/p>\n<p>JULIE: I've always had such a big investment in providing care in places that are more out of the way, more remote, flyover country, right? Places that people don't \u2013 it's not on your vacation bucket list, but people live there. People live there, they have their lives there, they have their families there.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: And people need abortion care in these places, too. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: These rural, red-state areas are sometimes called \"abortion deserts\" because of the lack of service. Five years ago\u2026<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: \u2026I was approached in 2020 by a wonderful advocate in Wyoming, and she came to me and asked me if I would be interested in opening a clinic in Wyoming. I said, \"That's interesting that you ask, because it's a state that I had looked at previously and thought needed services.\"<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Julie began plans for a clinic in Casper, a small city tucked into the mountains and known for its frontier history. Despite its identity as a deeply red state\u2026<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Wyoming voted heavily for Donald Trump in the 3 past elections.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: \u2026Wyoming also has a bit of a \"cowboy culture.\" <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): There's sort of like, a, \u201cwe want to be individualistic and not have the government interfere too much,\u201d if I understand that correctly.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: That's correct. Yes. That's correct. The constitution in the state of Wyoming provides for the protection of one, health care, and within health care is abortion care. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: In fact, historically \u2013 as a state that was the very first to allow women to vote \u2013<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Wyoming wasn't really that concerned with regulating abortion.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: After purchasing real estate, and building out a medical clinic, Julie was preparing to open Wellspring Health Access when this national news broke, in the spring of 2022\u2026here's ABC News.<\/p>\n<p>ABC NEWS: The bombshell leak of a draft opinion showing that five conservative Supreme Court justices appear poised to strike down Roe v. Wade.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: I was actually sitting on a plane and getting ready to take off, and I let out this little audible squeal because I found the opinion to be so absolutely shocking.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: It also, of course, made the future of the yet-to-be-opened clinic in Wyoming questionable at best.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: In recent years, a number of more Trump-like candidates have been elected in Wyoming. <\/p>\n<p>JULIE: I call them Trump-ites. They passed a statute that if Roe were to fall, then we would immediately have a ban in place in Wyoming.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Knowing there would be fights, and litigation, Julie was racing to get the clinic open.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: We wanted to make sure that in front of the court in Wyoming that we had standing before the fall of Roe.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And then, May 2022.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: It was May 25th of '22, to be exact.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: At the crack of dawn, Julie's contractor called. <\/p>\n<p>JULIE: When I saw his name, I was like, \"This is not going to be good. There's no reason on God's green earth for the contractor to call early in the morning like this unless something's happened.\"<\/p>\n<p>SUE: The news was devastating. An arsonist had broken in and doused the clinic with gasoline, destroying brand new equipment and exam tables, torching floors and windows.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: I asked Julie about what went through her mind, especially having known Dr. Tiller.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Did this just bring back all of what you went through when he was assassinated?<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: It absolutely did. I really feel like I suffered some PTSD after that. I can tell you that after I came back home after the arson happened, I literally sat on my back porch all day the next day and I just cried. It was incredibly traumatizing.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: The arsonist was actually a young woman, who has since been sentenced to 5 years in prison. The good news is that the clinic did rebuild and open, 11 months after the fire. SUE: While there have been significant legal challenges and setbacks \u2013 including one this past February that forced the clinic to stop providing abortion services for nearly 2 months \u2013 it is now back open.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Have you had people come from all over, people who need to use the services of a clinic?<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Absolutely. We have had people who have come from 19 different states across the country. However, we serve people predominantly from Wyoming, the Dakotas, especially South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Utah. That is a product of Roe having fallen, which is quite unfortunate that you would have to travel so many miles.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: When we spoke with Angel earlier in the podcast, there seemed to be progress in that more women in banned or restricted states can easily \u2013 and cheaply \u2013 receive abortion pills in the mail, and manage the process at home. So why are so many patients travelling to Julie's clinic in Wyoming?<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: I asked her about that. She's treated almost 600 patients, the majority through surgical or medical abortion.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Yes. One reason would be that delay in care.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Abortion pills are recommended for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. But sometimes people don't know where to find them, or how to pay for them \u2013 and sometimes, people don't even know they're pregnant until the second trimester.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: You oftentimes see that in younger people who aren't sure what's going on with their bodies.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: And for women experiencing ectopic or other non-viable pregnancies, abortion pills don't work.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: It would be if there was some medical reason why a medication abortion procedure would not be called for, that there might be some contraindications there.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: Despite the advances of abortion pills, we still need brick-and-mortar clinics.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Yeah. And Julie, by the way, is now beginning another legal fight  \u2013 she's seeking an injunction as Wyoming, this summer, is set to ban medications that induce abortion. She explained why that matters for surgical abortion.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Misoprostol is oftentimes used in procedural care when you have typically later first trimester into second trimester and beyond cases. It would have a great impact on our service delivery.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: It never ends.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN. It really doesn't. As we get to the end of this podcast, I wanted to say how struck I was, in talking to Angel and then Julie, that the only way some women in this country are able to get abortion care now is really through the work of incredibly committed women.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: For sure. And honestly, it sort of feels like just a handful of women. And they do it at great cost and great personal risk.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: I asked Angel about that.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Do you worry about yourself personally or your family?<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: A little bit. I think everybody who's involved with The MAP did their own individual assessment of risk and risk tolerance. Some people are public-facing and some people aren't. As someone who's public-facing, I don't travel to or through banned-or-restricted states. I don't drive a car outside of Massachusetts. I enter the country through Canada. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: One of the hardest things is thinking about her parents.<\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: My mom and stepdad live in South Carolina. I can't go there, and I can't visit them.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Her husband recently lost his mother \u2013 and got to spend 10 days with her before she died. <\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: Yes, it's hard to think about how that wouldn't be possible if it was my own mom.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: I asked Julie the same questions \u2013 after all, she worked for someone who was assassinated, and she's had her clinic fire-bombed.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): How are you personally able to withstand all that?<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Well, I guess one, this is something that's always been very near and dear to my heart. I think maybe that makes it easier, in a way, because I've been so passionate about what I do.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Julie actually lives in Colorado, not Wyoming, which is a blue state. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE): Do you not feel safe to travel, or\u2026?<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: When I was living in Wichita, there were a lot of those personal infringements. It was pretty bad. Since I've left that community, knock on wood, I feel more comfortable. It's not to say that I don't \u2013 I still take our security, home security, very seriously.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: But, we talked about fear, and how to manage it.<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Yes, I don't know. Fear is almost this fa\u00e7ade. If we can walk through it, even though it's so frightening and scary and paralyzing, then it's okay on the other side of that. That's the way I've mentally pictured that in my head. Also, not to be reckless, not to be personally reckless, right? Be smart about what you're doing. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Given how politically charged this all is\u2026<\/p>\n<p>SUE: \u2026even though the women who need abortion care come from all political backgrounds\u2026<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: \u2026I did ask Julie about the election last November. <\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN (FROM TAPE) : How different would things have been, do you think, if Harris had been elected as opposed to Trump?<\/p>\n<p>JULIE: Oh, wow. I guess one of the things that comes to mind is that people like myself, my other colleagues, that was one of our goals, was that we really wanted to be part of her advisory council to really help to shape equitable health care delivery. That's a dream that just went out the window.  <\/p>\n<p>SUE: What might have been, for the women of America.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: Well, I want to end this podcast with some fighting words, from Angel. There are many women out there, and men too, who want to counter the extremism we're seeing, and who want to support reproductive freedom. I asked her, what can people do? <\/p>\n<p>ANGEL: First, help get the word out that abortion with pills is available in all 50 states, and that medication abortion is safe and effective. We\u2019ve got these attempts that are coming down the pike that are meant to really restrict speech. So the more people that can just amplify that abortion pills are available, the harder it will be to do that. Our mantra is \u201cno anticipatory obedience.\u201d We are going to continue to operate until we are no longer able to legally operate. What we\u2019re not going to do is preemptively change our practice because of some vague or imagined risk. We do not comply in advance. Push back on all kinds of things.<\/p>\n<p>COLLEEN: We thank Angel Foster and Julie Burkhart for talking with us.<\/p>\n<p>SUE: And we thank you for listening. <\/p>\n<p>OUTRO: This has been The Story Exchange. Join us next time to hear more stories about innovative and inspirational women doing the things you\u2019d never dream of. Or...maybe you would. If you liked this podcast, please share on social media or post a review wherever you listen. It helps other people find the show. And visit our website at TheStoryExchange.org, where you\u2019ll find news, videos and tips for entrepreneurial women. And we\u2019d love to hear from you: Drop us a line at info@thestoryexchange.org \u2014 or find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and BlueSky. I'm Colleen DeBaise. Sound editing provided by Nusha Balyan. Production coordinator is No\u00ebl Flego. Executive producers are Sue Williams and Victoria Wang. Our mixer is Pat Donahue.. Recorded at Cutting Room Studios in New York City.<\/p>\n<\/p>\r\n\t\t<\/div>\r\n\t\t<!--\/.accordion-accordion_content-->\r\n\t<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We&#8217;re thrilled to announce that this June 2025 episode has been nominated for a Webby Award, in the News &#038; Politics category. Listen here!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":51,"featured_media":79005,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"autoblue_enabled":true,"autoblue_custom_message":"","autoblue_shares":[{"did":"did:plc:l2n6ydtigm3gtra4vb4rfl7f","date":"2025-06-20T16:36:13+00:00","uri":"at:\/\/did:plc:l2n6ydtigm3gtra4vb4rfl7f\/app.bsky.feed.post\/3ls2huy2kdl22","response":"{\"uri\":\"at:\/\/did:plc:l2n6ydtigm3gtra4vb4rfl7f\/app.bsky.feed.post\/3ls2huy2kdl22\",\"cid\":\"bafyreig6wz5phsg4jlrcrysoqtqmz2tdupimdsfseocawotpahwb76lw3i\",\"commit\":{\"cid\":\"bafyreibuubbhz3rptbdypqjmo5asxzvgklynqfcfykfsba553wqcqyqvcy\",\"rev\":\"3ls2huy2u4322\"},\"validationStatus\":\"valid\"}"}],"autoblue_post_url":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[147],"tags":[20437,20398,19682],"class_list":["post-78962","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-public-health","tag-reproductive-rights","tag-women-empowerment"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v26.3 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"No one expected abortion rates to rise. Or pills to get easier to access. We talk to Angel Foster and Julie Burkhart about leading the resistance.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"We&#039;re thrilled to announce that this June 2025 episode has been nominated for a Webby Award, in the News &amp; Politics category. Listen here!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Story Exchange\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/TheStoryExchange\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2025-06-20T16:36:04+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-04-17T14:40:28+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"800\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Colleen DeBaise\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@TheStoryXchange\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@TheStoryXchange\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Colleen DeBaise\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs","description":"No one expected abortion rates to rise. Or pills to get easier to access. We talk to Angel Foster and Julie Burkhart about leading the resistance.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs","og_description":"We're thrilled to announce that this June 2025 episode has been nominated for a Webby Award, in the News & Politics category. Listen here!","og_url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/","og_site_name":"The Story Exchange","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/TheStoryExchange","article_published_time":"2025-06-20T16:36:04+00:00","article_modified_time":"2026-04-17T14:40:28+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1200,"height":800,"url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Colleen DeBaise","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@TheStoryXchange","twitter_site":"@TheStoryXchange","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Colleen DeBaise","Est. reading time":"4 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/"},"author":{"name":"Colleen DeBaise","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#\/schema\/person\/37ea4af04b473a35e85983067534a6b6"},"headline":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs","datePublished":"2025-06-20T16:36:04+00:00","dateModified":"2026-04-17T14:40:28+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/"},"wordCount":533,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg","keywords":["Public Health","Reproductive Rights","Women Empowerment"],"articleSection":["Podcast"],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/","url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/","name":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg","datePublished":"2025-06-20T16:36:04+00:00","dateModified":"2026-04-17T14:40:28+00:00","description":"No one expected abortion rates to rise. Or pills to get easier to access. We talk to Angel Foster and Julie Burkhart about leading the resistance.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/pexels-n-voitkevich-5982450-1.jpg","width":1200,"height":800},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/the-state-of-abortion-3-years-since-dobbs\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"The State of Abortion, 3 Years Since Dobbs"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#website","url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/","name":"The Story Exchange","description":"Inspiration and information for women entrepreneurs","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#organization","name":"The Story Exchange","url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/cdn1.thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/01\/24161459\/TSE-logo-web-e1525383604615.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/cdn1.thestoryexchange.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/01\/24161459\/TSE-logo-web-e1525383604615.png","width":500,"height":180,"caption":"The Story Exchange"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"},"sameAs":["https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/TheStoryExchange","https:\/\/x.com\/TheStoryXchange","https:\/\/instagram.com\/thestoryexchange\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/the-story-exchange","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/StoryExchange"]},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/#\/schema\/person\/37ea4af04b473a35e85983067534a6b6","name":"Colleen DeBaise","description":"Colleen DeBaise is former small business editor of the Wall Street Journal. Her most recent book is \u201cStart a Successful Business.\u201d She has also written about the rewards and challenges of entrepreneurship for Inc., Entrepreneur and BusinessWeek, among others. She has been interviewed on MSNBC, Fox, CNBC, CBS and NPR. Colleen has a master\u2019s in journalism from Northwestern University. Contact her at colleen@thestoryexchange.org.","sameAs":["https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/author\/colleen-debaise-at-the-story-exchange\/"],"url":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/author\/colleen-debaise-at-the-story-exchange\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/78962","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/51"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=78962"}],"version-history":[{"count":40,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/78962\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":83485,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/78962\/revisions\/83485"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/79005"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=78962"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=78962"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thestoryexchange.org\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=78962"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}